Editing ‘The Vow’ an interview with editor Hana Wuerker
By Kim French - January 28th 2023
On October 27th 2020, Keith Raniere, the founder of NXIVM, a multi-level marketing company promoting self development, was sentenced to 120 years in prison on charges including sex trafficking, racketeering and forced labour conspiracy. ‘The Vow’ tells the story of the extraordinary unravelling of NXIVM and Keith, as it follows a number of members of the group as they as they make the choice to walk away.
A cinema vérité (unveiling truth) documentary at it’s core, the series is a tapestry of footage from the earliest days of NXIVM right up to the headline hitting court case. Edit Girls spoke with editor Hana Wuerker about her experience working on season 2 of this phenomenal documentary series.
How and when did you become involved in the project?
I was first contacted about this project back in winter of 2020. A work colleague of mine, Rameen Aminzadeh, from a previous project (Netflix’s We Are the Brooklyn Saints) had been contacted to work on the show. Rameen, the wonderful soul that he is, suggested that they also hire myself and Kim Hall, another fabulous editor. We came in as a trio of editors. I had watched the first season as a spectator and was blown away by the story. I was thrilled when I got the call about working on the second season.
Keith Raniere, NXIVM’s leader, had filmed hundreds of hours of footage for the purpose of promoting the group.
The series is rich with footage from throughout NXIVMs history as well as the interviews and footage from the people we are following. Can you talk us through the various different sources of footage, where they came from, how far back they were recorded and what it was like navigating that much content?
I can’t speak to the sources, since that was out of my wheelhouse, but there were many and we had quite the team assembled to sort through the mountains of footage! Many story producers, archival producers, assistant editors, editors watched through the thousands of hours of footage. When I first started in January of 2021 we had about a month of dedicated watching time. In other projects I’ve been on, having this time is pretty unheard of. There were also many months before the editors came on that were dedicated to sorting through the material.
We were blessed with a monumental amount of ESP/NXIVM footage going back to the very first classes that Keith and Nancy taught in the late 90’s. Keith, throughout the years, was keen on documenting what was happening in the organization.
It was incredibly difficult navigating the amount of material. In most projects, I’m eager to watch every frame of material in order to have a good grasp on the limits of what we have. In this case, that was just not possible. One of the organizing principles we used in the beginning was something we called “story buckets” each story producer and editor were assigned to a story bucket. That team would then become an expert on the footage in their story bucket and present selects, archival, special gems found to the greater story team. This allowed for us to be sure that at least two people had full knowledge of each storyline.
“We were blessed with a monumental amount of ESP/NXIVM footage going back to the very first classes that Keith and Nancy taught in the late 90’s. Keith, throughout the years, was keen on documenting what was happening in the organization.”
Throughout the project, it proved useful to keep revisiting and rewatching different sections of archival. I would watch something at the beginning, not knowing what I was seeing, then revisit 9 months later only to understand how it fit into the story. Those archival revisits brought some of the best material into play near the end, particularly when we went back to sort through and find Dani and Cami footage.
Season two of ‘The Vow’ follows the 6 week long NXIVM trial including the sentencing of actress Allison Mack on charges of sex trafficking.
Sensational headlines using words like ‘sex cult’ were used when the NXIVM scandal was reported in the press. Can you tell us more about balancing the line between the sensationalist nature of the subject and the human perspective?
I would say one of our bigger goals was to push past some of this salacious headlines. Of course, words like ‘sex cult’ are a hook in for a lot of folks, but it also has the effect of other-izing the people who participated in the organization. It re-creates this kind of ‘us vs. them’ model that’s often found in cult shows between the audience and the subjects. We wanted to go beyond that and find the ways that this may actually feel quite familiar.
“As spectators, we too need to understand the responsibility of bearing witness to the human experiences that exist beyond the “sex cult” headlines. ”
One of the ways we tried to play with this ‘voice of media’ was through Emily Saul, the reporter from the NY Post. She’s introduced as someone who’s both pulled in by the headlines and creating the headlines. When we first meet her, she describes the “Hey Martha” principle of how to pull people in and, “this story is nothing but Hey Martha,” she describes. Throughout the trial though, Saul really shifts in her perspective as the content takes its toll on her personally. By the end of Dani’s testimony, we see her in a scene at her home talking about the responsibility of bearing witness. And as spectators, we too need to understand the responsibility of bearing witness to the human experiences that exist beyond the “sex cult” headlines.
The cinéma vérité style of the series meant you followed the story where it took you. Tell us more about editing a project of which you didn’t know the exact conclusion;
Not knowing exactly where we’re going is the joy of documentary editing! When I came on, the trial was over. So, there were certain concrete facts that were known. Outcomes of the trial, prison times — these were all known. What we didn’t know yet was where the emotional journeys for our subjects would land. Nancy had not yet been sentenced and was clearly on an emotional journey throughout her house arrest when we were filming. The folks who have remained loyal to Keith were working on ways to get him out and we didn’t know where they were going to land.
In terms of editing a project like this, there has to be an ever present readiness to tear everything down and re-build. There was a constant shuffling of index cards on the wall. As the story is unraveling in real time, we had to be ready to keep rethinking how we were representing it in the show. For example, when we were building the final episode and started working with the scene where Nancy reads that Cami will be showing up at Keith’s sentencing to read a victim impact statement, we had to go back and re-construct the build of how we laid out Cami’s story (which begins in episode 5) so an audience can experience that same surprise that Nancy felt.
“In terms of editing a project like this, there has to be an ever present readiness to tear everything down and re-build.”
The interview with NXIVM co-founder, Nancy Salzman formed much of the foundation of season 2 of ‘The Vow’.
What did your work flow look like, from receiving new footage to the final cut and how did you collaborate with the other editors on the project?
Since we were working remotely for the entirety of the edit with a large post team, we had to be extremely organized.
As I mentioned, we worked with this story bucket organizing principle at the beginning. Within our story bucket, we would be responsible for synthesizing the material and turning it into proper scenes that could be used as bricks in the larger structure. Our Story Producers — Marina Nieto, Robin Espinola, and Kathryn Clinard — were brilliant in terms of helping to keep track of character arcs throughout the series as the editors were focused on building the bricks.
Once we got through the story bucket phase and had a solid foundation of bricks to play with, each editor was assigned an episode and we worked toward building rough cuts. Throughout this phase, a lot remained loose. We still moved whole episodes around as well as specific scenes. We ended up relying on Mural, an online index carding platform, to help keep track of all the movement.
There were two major story arcs that formed our basic structure. We had the chronological and forward moving arc of the trial, and then we had the emotional arc of Nancy Salzman. The trial was complicated because we had to figure out how to fold six weeks of testimony down into about four episodes. The trial itself and how the prosecution charged the case is incredibly complicated, so we had to really hone into what pieces we wanted to tell and why. We knew our purpose of the series was not to re-try the case, so we had to really choose specifically and carefully.
We spent quite a bit of time in this rough cut to fine cut stage, moving pieces around to build a solid structure. Throughout this, we had editors enter and exit. It was always great to move editors to different episodes to get fresh eyes into the storytelling. Near the end though, I was able to move through each episode as we were locking to give it some uniformity throughout.
In season 2 of The Vow we begin to be introduced to NXIVM ‘insiders’, Intertwining their perspectives with those who have left the cult. Is it possible to be non bias? And what measures did you take to balance both sides?
I, personally, don’t believe that any piece of media or storytelling can be completely un-biased. It’s a question of are we able to acknowledge, play with, and question our biases. The audience is coming into this series already hugely biased by the news and salacious headlines. That starting point definitely factored in to how we were going to break down that wall to allow the audience a different perspective.
Jehane and Karim were able to get unprecedented access to folks who were going through a really raw transformation in the wake of NXIVM’s downfall. There were people who remained steadfast and loyal, there were people who were facing the damages done to them, and then there was someone who was moving from one side of the spectrum to the other. With Nancy Salzman (the former president of ESP/NXIVM and one of the main creators of the eduction) we had an opportunity for a raw glimpse into what that kind of transformation looked like. When I joined the project, this is what excited me most. There was an opportunity here to delve into great emotional and moral complexities and wrestle with bigger themes about our understanding of choice, consent, power, blame and responsibility.
In terms of balancing, this was the great fortune of having so many incredibly smart filmmakers on the team. We had a very collaborative environment that worked as a checks and balances towards any biases anyone of us may have had.
“This material was definitely the darkest and most difficult soup I’ve ever stewed in. As editors, part of our job is to put ourselves in the shoes of our subjects. Sometimes it’s very hard to pull out of those shoes at the end of the day. ”
New York Post reporter Emily Saul was the ‘voice of media’ in the series.
In season 2 we meet new characters during the trial, including New York Post reporter, Emily Saul. How did you go about choosing which individuals and storylines to delve into further?
It was a bit of an organic process. When we were starting the edit, we were cutting scenes with many more people than who ended up in the final series. Once we got the structural backbone of the trial and Nancy’s arc, it became about what was supporting, subverting, adding to those storylines. Anything that didn’t serve those moved to the cutting room floor. And a lot of those scenes, stories, subjects were incredible. We had the blessing and the curse of having too much amazing material!
We only had 6 and a half hours to tell a wildly complicated story. There’s so much more we could have added, but ultimately did not have the time to get into. We choose to have less storylines in order to go deeper into those specific themes.
The emotional impact of working on a project with such a dark subject matter can’t be underestimated. How did working on The Vow impact your personally?
This material was definitely the darkest and most difficult soup I’ve ever stewed in. As editors, part of our job is to put ourselves in the shoes of our subjects. Sometimes it’s very hard to pull out of those shoes at the end of the day.
Very early on, our producing team brought on the DART Center and Bruce Shapiro who outlined many things for us including how to keep an eye out for Vicarious Trauma exposure. As the project went on, different members of the team were able to meet one-on-one with Bruce to talk about how we were personally wrestling with the material. One great tip from Bruce was this lemon and ice trick! When you’re watching dark material for long hours, you can get pretty absorbed into this footage and lose track of yourself and your body. Bruce suggested to keep a lemon slice or ice nearby, you take a bite out of either and it helps get you back into your body and recognize the separation between yourself and what you’re watching. It’s quite simple but powerful.
I was also fortunate to have an incredible therapist who I had already been working with for two years. She was so critical in helping me keep track of what was seeping in. Along the way, when I was having a particularly hard time with the material, I also connected with a psychiatrist who became an important part of my mental health care team. Great support is what got me through.
Is there anything else you’d like to share about the experience of working on The Vow?
My favorite scenes and moments! I love the animals of The Vow. Nancy’s cat Maus was a special one. Most folks had a dog or cat which we tried to showcase if we could.
There are so many things I love about this show, but one of my favorite quieter moments is in episode 3 between Isabella and her grandmother. When I started on that episode, there was a longer family dinner scene that had already been cut. I decided to go back to the raw to watch it and found this incredibly sweet moment before dinner between Isabella and her grandmother where her grandmother expresses this notion that, “if you’ve got your health, you’ve got everything”. It’s a complicated scene because Isabella in this moment is really questioning that idea. Isabella, while acknowledging what was helped, is really gripping with what she lost in the process and was it worth it? The camera hangs on Isabella’s face as her grandmother says this, and her expression is speaking louder than anything she could ever say. It’s a powerful moment that encompasses the kinds of psychological complications that take place as folks emerge from these kinds of groups.