Editing ‘20 Days in Mariupol’ an interview with editor Michelle Mizner
‘20 Days in Mariupol’ is a documentary that paints a picture of the harrowing experience of Ukrainians amidst the Russian invasion. Told through the eyes of Ukrainian journalist, Mstyslav Chernov and his team, who are in Mariupol at the time of the Russian siege.
Michelle Mizner, of FRONTLINE PBS, is producer and editor of the now Oscar award-winning documentary, which premiered at the 2023 Sundance Film Festival to critical acclaim. Michelle spoke to Edit Girls about the delicacy of telling such a politically fraught but intensely human story and how her and her team, based in Boston, overcame major logistical barriers to be able to work closely with their colleagues on the frontline in Ukraine. Michelle also talks about the very real emotional impact of living so closely with such upsetting and raw footage and how she ensured to take care of her own mental health in order to share this important story in the most just way.
What were your initial motivations for working on '20 Days in Mariupol' as a producer and editor?
In February 2022, while wrapping up another edit, I was watching the news coming out of Ukraine with the same shock as the rest of the world. Our editor-in-chief and executive producer at FRONTLINE PBS, Raney Aronson-Rath, had noted in particular the Associated Press stories coming out of the city of Mariupol, which were harrowing and also incredibly filmed. We have an ongoing collaboration with the AP and so Raney was put in touch with the person who was behind the camera: Ukrainian AP journalist Mstyslav Chernov. They spoke and she connected me with him to explore further the possibility of a film. I can’t tell you how grateful I am to Raney for that opportunity, and then for her partnership in making it.
My first zoom with Mstyslav was just a few days after he and his reporting colleagues, still photographer Evgeniy Maloletka and field producer Vasilisa Stepanenko, had escaped from the city where they had been covering the siege. He was at the time in an undisclosed location for his safety. Despite all he had already been through, Mstyslav was extremely motivated to keep working to do more with the footage he had gathered and smuggled out of the city through multiple Russian checkpoints. It was impossible to not be inspired by his commitment, his vision for a film, as well as by what he had filmed. These were images of war, captured sensitively but unflinchingly. It felt important for the world to see them, and it was clear that he was the right person to tell the story.
Photographer Evgeniy Maloletka picks his way through the aftermath of a Russian attack in Mariupol, Ukraine, Feb. 24, 2022. Still from FRONTLINE PBS and AP’s feature film “20 Days in Mariupol.” CREDIT: (AP Photo/Mstyslav Chernov)
Editing a documentary on such a sensitive and ongoing conflict must be extremely challenging. Could you describe some of the unique editorial and production challenges you faced while working on this project?
Mstyslav and I had many discussions about how the film could work. He’d not made a film before, but was a natural director and had incredible ideas. Meanwhile, he was continuing to cover the war on the ground, in places like Bucha and his hometown of Kharkiv. We would speak about the film in his evenings. As you can imagine, it was a really intense time, but he was determined.
Like everyone in Mariupol, Mstyslav, Evgeniy and Vasalisa were in danger because they were in a city under siege. And as the days pass, they also become the target of a disinformation campaign in Russian media. At the beginning of the film, we establish a convention of showing their images in news montages. Later, this technique is also how we show their images appearing in Russian media as they are referred to as ‘information terrorists’. I remember Mstyslav pulling up these videos to show me how Russian news had twisted what we had just seen happen very plainly in the footage. Without needing to say much himself, it was all very clear and unnerving. Audiences say it’s an enraging scene in the film. I think moments like this ended up being an effective way to workshop approaches to telling the stories in the film.
Observe how you tell the story to a person sitting with you, like how much you can get across with as few words as possible. Let the audience do the math. (The story math, at least. Don’t make them do actual math with numbers. That’s rarely ever a good thing!)
“Mstyslav had a thought, early on, that we could use news montages to contextualize the broader war, but also show how their footage was portrayed within the news cycle, including when their footage appeared in the Russian disinformation campaign. ”
People take shelter in a youth theater in Mariupol, Ukraine, March 6, 2022. Still from FRONTLINE PBS and AP’s feature film “20 Days in Mariupol.” CREDIT: (AP Photo/Mstyslav Chernov)
How did you approach the task of editing footage that documented the war's atrocities while maintaining a balance between delivering the harsh realities and respecting the sensitivity of the content?
Given the nature of the footage, as I was logging, it was especially important to consider who it was behind the camera. How is this person interacting with the people they are filming? Why are they the right person to tell this story? Mstyslav is an experienced journalist and has covered many wars. I was able to see within the rushes how he carried out his news-gathering work respectfully and professionally. And in this case, so clearly as a part of the community he was filming. I loved finding moments when people would ask him, “Where are you from?” and when he would say “Kharkiv” there would be a sense of ease or trust that followed. Unlike foreign journalists, Mstyslav and the team were able to navigate covering the story as locals, which is apparent in what they were able to film and how long they stayed. Doctors, nurses, and residents in the city urged them to keep filming. It was really difficult for them to decide to leave when they did, although it was absolutely necessary at that point, I know Mstyslav felt a lot of guilt around that.
‘20 Days in Mariupol’ is made up from footage that was not initially gathered with the intention of making a long form documentary. And the filmmaker has a personal connection to the story. These are the kinds of films I personally enjoy working on. I think one of the reasons editors play such an important role in documentaries is because we see everything. There needs to be a foundation of trust between the director and editor.
From speaking with him, I learned he is extremely critical of his own shooting, which is probably part of what makes him so good at his craft. Where he would see a technical mistake or missed opportunity in the footage, I typically would not. What an editor can ideally do is challenge those impressions and bring fresh eyes to the footage, without the regrets or burdens of having been in the role of gathering it. I have learned over the years that it is sometimes better for me to not be in the field on the shoots if I can help it, since it lets me see the footage more like how an audience will see it.
“ I think one of the reasons editors play such an important role in documentaries is because we see everything. There needs to be a foundation of trust between the director and editor.”
An explosion is seen in an apartment building after Russian army tank fires in Mariupol, Ukraine, March 11, 2022. Still from FRONTLINE PBS and AP’s feature film “20 Days in Mariupol.” CREDIT: (AP Photo/Evgeniy Maloletka)
'20 Days in Mariupol' is a documentary that covers a rapidly evolving situation. How did you decide which moments to include in the final cut, and what considerations did you have regarding pacing and storytelling?
There were a series of key events that Mstyslav and the team documented while in Mariupol, from the initial deaths of civilians and children, to the shelling of the maternity hospital. The sequence of those events drove the chronology, all taking place within the time the team was in the city.
While not making it a story about him, Mstyslav’s perspective from behind the camera guides viewers through the moments informationally but also emotionally. My own experience logging the footage was very much impacted by sensing him behind the camera, as he would frame and compose shots, or leave the camera running whilst interacting with people. As we discussed the footage, I was hearing his descriptions of what he was thinking as the events on screen unfolded. His voice in my ear became integral to the experience of going through footage. And the idea of observing these atrocities absent of his presence and the context he could provide seemed to me a cold and inaccessible way to put it out into the world. In my mind, part of Mstyslav’s purpose in the film is to make it possible for audiences to take in everything - both because he’s filming, and because you can sense there is someone alongside you bearing witness to the same.
“In my mind, part of Mstyslav’s purpose in the film is to make it possible for audiences to take in everything - both because he’s filming, and because you can sense there is someone alongside you bearing witness to the same. ”
Mstyslav Chernov in the field. CREDIT: (AP Photo Felipe Dana)
What role do music and sound design play in your editing process and how do they contribute to the emotional impact of the film?
We thought of the music more like sound design. The intention was to match the mood and feeling in Mariupol at the time, which Mstyslav could inform both with the footage and his own experience. We worked closely with our talented composer, Jordan Dykstra, to let the scenes inspire the sounds. Mstyslav described the industrial heartbeat of a city, and so instruments like drums, or metal and wind sounds were useful. We also used this single-tone cue in some key moments and dropped out the scene sound behind it, and later discussed how it represented the sound of ringing in your ear after a bomb or a flat line of a hospital monitor. Occasionally I find when you do something in the edit, you don’t know in that moment exactly why you are doing it – it just feels right. And it’s later on you or someone else applies meaning to it, and you realize what your subconscious was doing there. It surprises you.
“We used this single-tone cue in some key moments and dropped out the scene sound behind it, and later discussed how it represented the sound of ringing in your ear after a bomb or a flat line of a hospital monitor. ”
Photographer Evgeniy Maloletka points at the smoke rising after an airstrike on a maternity hospital in Mariupol, Ukraine, March 9, 2022. Still from FRONTLINE PBS and AP’s feature film “20 Days in Mariupol.” CREDIT: (AP Photo/Mstyslav Chernov)
Were there any scenes or interviews that had a particularly profound impact on you as an editor, and how did you approach those moments in the editing process?
There are many scenes that had a profound impact on me within this footage. Of course, the images of children dying and parents crying. That goes without saying. But as an editor, I will also never forget finding and connecting moments that weren’t intentionally filmed, which we would use to stitch the news dispatches together to make a narrative. Like this scene in Day 4, where Mstyslav and his colleague Evgeniy plead with soldiers to let them keep filming. They tell them, “This is a historic event. It’s impossible not to film.” As someone who was thinking about the story and putting the pieces of the film together, it was like finding gold. Here were our protagonists facing an obstacle to their mission, and yet they keep trying. Soon after this, a doctor would implore them to keep filming, and that is when their time in the hospital began. There is also a moment after witnessing the death of a child that Mstyslav takes off his press helmet and sets it down, and his camera captures this by chance. In terms of discovering a sequence of events that held meaning and narrative value, those scenes are memorable to me.
Collaboration is key in documentary filmmaking. How did you work with the director and the rest of the production team to ensure that the film's message and tone were consistent throughout the editing process?
Documentaries are very much a collaboration, and this was no exception. As an editor, I think of my role as a partner to the director, and a proxy for the audience. Mstyslav’s dispatches from the field had been seen in various fashions in the churn of the daily news cycle, but the goal of the film was to tell the story of what happened to the city of Mariupol so that it would be known and remembered for much longer. I hope that is what this film will do.
I have to emphasize that Mstyslav had a clear vision here. This was important because this was a film that needed an author, and to not be made by a committee. If the director does not know their vision or how to articulate and defend it, that can be a challenge, especially once feedback or notes start coming in. Editors can often help directors hone a vision and communicate it effectively. But having a vision does not preclude being collaborative. Mstyslav very much sought the expertise and partnership of others, from me and the other producers (Raney Aronson-Rath and Derl McCrudden), to our sound mixer (Jim Sullivan) and colorist (Jim Ferguson). For example, with color, he would describe the dusty and rusty qualities of the city, and then Jim would apply his artistic and technical skills to preserve that in the grade. In my experience, great directors inspire teams of craftspeople with a vision, and then trust them to give their best.
Ukrainian emergency employees and police officers evacuate injured pregnant woman Iryna Kalinina, 32, from a maternity hospital that was damaged by a Russian airstrike in Mariupol, Ukraine, March 9, 2022. Still from FRONTLINE PBS and AP’s feature film “20 Days in Mariupol.” CREDIT: (AP Photo/Evgeniy Maloletka)
What technical tools and software did you use during the editing process, and how did they help you in crafting the final narrative?
We have an incredible post team at FRONTLINE, which is based at GBH in Boston. We use Avid Media Composer, and to get the offline going, our post-production manager, Megan McGough Christian, and assistant editors implemented a workflow with a team of fantastic translators. The translators used a web-based tool to create time coded translations, which were brought in as captions using the SubCap tool. I would be so overwhelmed without our exceptional AEs (Christine Giordano, Alex LaGore, Tim Meagher) who I think of as “technical editors” rather than assistants. We also had a skilled archive producer, Lindsey Schnider, who rounded up a ton of news archive for the film right away. And a very talented additional editor, Snezhana Potapchuk, who helped get the memory sequences started. It was a big effort, but again, a smart and motivated team.
Mstyslav and I used Google Docs for scripting. In addition to us talking over the phone and recording ideas for the story from that, he would write what were almost like diary entries for each day of filming and share those with me. I’d adopt some of the lines into the narration for a first assembly. Eventually we were able to work together in person for several weeks to write, record, and edit. We went scene by scene. I’ve never made a record before, but have watched a lot of music documentaries, and this was the closest thing I’ve experienced to what I think that must be like. Despite the heavy subject matter, I really enjoyed working with Mstyslav on this film.
Michelle Mizner and Mstyslav Chernov in the audio mix for ‘20 Days in Mariupol’
This documentary addresses a highly sensitive and political topic. How did you navigate the potential pitfalls and controversies that can arise when working on such subject matter, particularly in the editing room?
Like all FRONTLINE documentaries, this film underwent a thorough editorial and fact checking process. This is a crucial part of protecting the journalistic legacy of the series, which has been running strong for over 40 years. It also ensures the film team's ability to stand behind the film confidently. We have editors on staff - not film editors, but journalism editors - who help think through these questions. On this film, our senior editor was Lauren Prestileo, and our managing editor at FRONTLINE is Andrew Metz. That’s in addition to the editors and teams at AP who were part of the project. All in all, we benefit from a lot of individual and institutional wisdom when it comes to making decisions about how to fairly and factually report stories in the form of a documentary film.
Watching and working with footage of this nature can be a heavy burden to bear. How did you ensure you practiced self-care during the editing process?
FRONTLINE staff have participated in a couple of training sessions with the Dart Center for Journalism and Trauma, where I have learned techniques like muting certain sounds and images to limit overexposure. I am lucky to have access to a therapist, and really wish that was a more ubiquitous part of healthcare for everyone. When in the middle of an intense edit, I try not to neglect my hobbies or things that bring me joy. Swimming, gardening, watching ‘The Great British Bake Off’ with my husband and my cat. The little things are the big things.
“FRONTLINE staff have participated in a couple of training sessions with the Dart Center for Journalism and Trauma, where I have learned techniques like muting certain sounds and images to limit overexposure.”
Raney Aronson-Rath, Mstyslav Chernov and Michelle Mizner with their Best Documentary Feature Film Oscar for '20 Days in Mariupol.' CREDIT: Matt Sayles
What advice do you have to aspiring documentary editors about building a career in the field?
Watch as many documentaries as you can and figure out why they work (or why they don’t!) Know the rules and know when to break them. Also watch scripted films, and consider how storytelling and editing techniques they use can inspire your work in docs.
As for building a career, look for work on projects, and more importantly with people, who inspire, challenge and encourage you. I was lucky to find that in Mstyslav on this film. And for the past ten years, I’m grateful to have had that at FRONTLINE, a series led by someone like Raney, made up of so many incredible journalists and filmmakers who I learn from every day.
“Watch as many documentaries as you can and figure out why they work (or why they don’t!)”
A huge thank you to Michelle for sharing her incredible insight into the editing process of ‘20 Days in Mariupol’ you can learn more about the film and where to watch it here.